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The Parrsitivity Podcast
The Parrsitivity Podcast

Episode 98 · 2 years ago

The Parrsitivity Podcast #EP4 with Dr Milyan (Mils)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mils Hills is currently Associate Professor in Risk, Resilience and Corporate Security at the University of Northampton Business School (UK) alongside his role as Head of the online MBAplus Programme and a management role in the Centre for Citizenship, Enterprise and Governance (CCEG). Associate Professor Dr Mils Hills graduated with a PhD (1998) and MA (Hons) (1995) in Social Anthropology from the University of St Andrews. He joined the research agency of the Ministry of Defence in 1998. Within a couple of years, he rose from being a contributing researcher in the area of Information Warfare to leading the national research capability in targeting / defending decision-making and business processes (Information Operations). He was later seconded to the Cabinet Office, helping establish the Civil Contingencies Secretariat, building the resilience and security of UK plc. as well as supporting the development of foreign policy, legislation and operational interventions in civilian, defence, intelligence and other activities. Using proprietary methods informed by his academic and applied research, Mils worked in sensitive and highly classified commissions to management boards and Permanent Secretaries across all Departments, but notably: 10 Downing Street the intelligence agencies the Governor of the Bank of England the Houses of Parliament, and the Royal Household. Increasingly, this work also involved co-ordination with private sector partners. During much of this period, he remained the UK research capability head for Information Operations research. Believing in the market value of his approach, he co-founded the consultancy Analytic Red LLP which worked with both government and commercial clients between 2005-10. Returning to academia in November 2010, he took an interim post at the University of Leicester (reviving a multi-million pound distance-learning MSc) and then a senior lectureship at Coventry University (Global Strategy), before joining Northampton Business School in 2012 as Senior Lecturer in Strategic Management. At Northampton, Mils has led bids and delivered consultancy. In September 2013, he was appointed Associate Professor in Risk, Resilience and Corporate Security whilst also being Programme Leader for the distance-learning MBAplus and leader of the Critical Issues module on the MBAplus programme. He is currently developing a new online Masters programme in applied risk and crisis management.. Mils is an external Assessor and dissertation supervisor for the world-renowned MSc programme in Cybersecurity at Warwick University – specialising in the human factors of Information Security. He also sits on the Senate and Court of the University of Northampton; currently supervise two PhD students and forms part of the management team of the business school’s Centre for Citizenship, Enterprise and Governance (CCEG). In this latter role, he is Solutions Architect; business mentor for third sector and other organisations and works to grow CCEG’s reach in the health, automotive, defence and psychological service markets. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the-parrsitivity-podcast/message

Yeah, how don't last. It works as like skype and everything else, isn't? It just takes yeah, to get it actually working. I know it's crazy. I mean I live in Cornwall at the minute, so like the connection. So here, Miss Yeah, bet, yeah, Wi fi or mobile. I'm using my mobile. I think my mobile data is better than my wife. Yeah, I can believe it. Yeah, we're back in Cormal, are you? I'm situated in place called like rocks. Okay, nice, nice part of the world. Yeah, it's very, very different to the rest of the world, but for sure it's my part. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I like grabbing corbal. So I've got my salt rock tshirt on today in honor of this and Nice. It's really amusing that we're talking as a result of us both interacting on Gary Vander Chuck's I think it was as Linkedin page, was it? Or One of those things that we united? Like you're in Corma, I'm not in corball both. Yeah, it's a coobal, but it's someone in America who's brought us together. How hope was always hope for how wonderful it's pretty yeah, it's pretty fascinating. I mean he put a post. I didn't seeing it was about. It's like there's old fashioned kind of board past where you put something on there that you need help with, an other people help. That's IT, exactly. And I put are doing a podcast and then you kind of nothing use like the first person who comments on it. And I was asked men. Yeah, cool, yeah, exactly. Well, I like talking, so, you know, any opportunity. Yeah, yeah, now, I mean this is more more attractive to me to be talking with doing all the things I ought to be doing. So, you know, just, yeah, talked about like a moth to a flame. But yeah, connections out of interacting on that, on that, like you said, old old school board thing. I don't know about come to anything, but you know, it's nice just just for humans who are kind of on the same wave length to join up, isn't it? Yeah, I mean I think there's so much potential on that platform. Yeah, you know, to grow and to connect with other people. Yeah, and I think a lot of people aren't aware of that. And it's so true. I've only just recently kind of, you know, found my feet on it and I think at first as a bit intimidated because, you know, I was on it and as Chris you know, like you got very important people and a beat. Then then you kind of realize, you know, you're all kind of working the same objective and you're all kind of on the same page. So, yeah, and some people aren't and you find out more about them through that kind of interaction and then you might decide actually, even if there was a possibility of working with you, I just don't like your style. I don't like the culture of it. You're very likely to have around with you, so you kind of gain intelligence that you can make decisions on around all of that. Likewise, other times you might see your side of someone where you kind of think that's interesting. Actually, I'd really like to work with you or support you in some kind of ways. I think there's no like Gary v says, you know, there's no kind of you know, technology is not a bad thing. Self, Linkedin is not a bad thing. All these people like you know, I'm conscious, I'm kind of channeling in the game. Always people complaining that, you know, linkedin is becoming like facebook. Well, it's because it's got people on it and I have a platform. Is it's becoming more flexible to what people want to share. If you don't like it, you don't like my cat picture, well go away. If if that sends you so much, I'm probably not going to like you as a person. Yeah, now, of course. I mean I I was just as ad ad dress you. I'm. Well, I'll come back to what you're saying. Yeah, but you're you said mills. Also, doesn't Dr million, mills, right. Well, yeah, yeah, okay, you my mum really knows me by some of those weird cornish names. Yeah, but I just caught the drag dress you as mills. That's that's that would be. Also, that's one. And you're I did a little bit of research and it your senior lecturer in Strategic Management. Yeah, and you've worked with so I mean I've never seen a lot of resume like it. You were with some pretty big companies and some big agencies, would call them. Yeah, some sery departments and stuff. Yeah, true, intelligence, intelligent agencies. Are the Governor Bank of England, House Pollen, theble, household. Like. How how did you kind of come part of working with within those people? And Yeah, that's a good question and not not many people ask that. I mean I think quite often people assume, wow, you must have come from a particular background and then you went to particularly universe, you studied the particular topic, you got a particular degree and then someone tapped you on the shoulder and said come and do this stuff, and then you...

...just kind of magically ended up doing all this stuff and it was all really highly paid. Well, you know, it wasn't highly paid for a start, but the rest of it is. It's two ways of looking at it. I sort of say to reassure people that it's nothing you Neique to me, which is sort of true. It was all by accident. Now that is kind of true, because you know any of those people who you meet and they say will have had a great career and it's going to get better, and I planned it all out on the back of an envelope or a beer mat or something at the age of six, eight, hundred and twenty whatever, and I've just followed that route and it's all been amazing. Not True, very very rare likely to be true. So you know, all my experience, exposure, some degree expertise that I've picked up has sort of been by accident. In a sense. It wasn't planned, but now that I kind of look back on it, and also look forward to what I want to do going into the future. It was mainly possible because I could just talk to people and build relationships with folk and then go from back to understood listening, doing an awful lot of listening, rather than being an academic type character who just had a lot of thoughts and people should listen to them. I'm much more I'm pretty sure I can help you. I don't know how yet, but let me find out more about your problem and, you know, let's have a chat over a cup of coffee or something about it rather than anything formal, and then you know, because perhaps I am somewhat slightly amazing. Who knows? was able to to help people make me often just help them see that they had the answers to their problems in their own organization or, if they just took a slightly different perspective, that they can achieve something. Sometimes it was inventing things, but not not that often. And actually people like people. People buy from people. If you speak to a state agents and anyone involved in sales that that's still true. People buy from people. So you know, I would get referred from one client in the civil service to another or just be able to pick up the phone and ask for an introduction to someone just because I was a friendly person who delivered some value, using Gary v type words again, and others were happy to, you know, take up a bit of time talking it to me because they might get something out of it. I might. It might just be a different sort of conversation to what they'd have I have have normally. And then before you know it you've got a kind of a career going, not one that takes you to sort of megabucks or I was never, you know, particularly senior either, but it's a beautiful but I was involved with and the problems I got to help solve. You know that that was pretty unique stuff, and especially the combination of things. But it none of it was because of, you know, me being somehow, you know, anointed at the age of eight and you're going to be master of the Universe one day. All, yeah, yours, far from yeah. First Person In my family toged university, first person to join the civil service, first person to early if the military. All that stuff is true, but kind of irrelevant. Need to come from a particular background to do quite well, it can be very, very challenging if you're from certain backgrounds, no doubt about it. I don't want to come across as entirely of privileged and say anybody can be, you know, whatever they be. There were are obstacles for lots of folk at that. But an awful lot of people also are held back by have a think society works rather than how it actually works, and that's maybe something that strikes a cord with you know what you're doing with life, coaching and developing your consultancy into future. Yeah, but clearly, and I think a lot of people kind of other fatherner like like a false image on the world, like they do think the world is. It's like painting a Convass, isn't that? People you know, like I said, how they think and how they behave based on previous experiences and force they've taken from certain situations that you know might not be good enough for yeah, you know, based on where you're from, how you might look, I might sound and hopefully, and all these kind of like combined together and you kind of see why some people think the way they do. Can you and very much say you like, yeah, there are blood that you know, anyone can be anything they want, but they are going to be the those limited limitations and those blocks in the way. Yeah, thanktually. But what you said about that you can connect with other people and I think you know, if you can connect with other people and your people person I think it's a lot more...

...easier. Yeah, I mean, I I I working like sales in the minute, like a close shop, and my people personally like to next to people like yourself and that kind of comes natural ways. Some people might find the hogs might be slightly more introverted. So you know. So there's different challenges and they with each person. Everyone's different and that's, I think, what makes life interest and because everyone's got their own story, everyone's got their own fears and, you know, vice versa. Yeah, no, but that that is true, and of course people need need we are I say. I mean I think also social skills are quite undervalued in our society, despite the fact that that's how that's what keeps everything going, and I'm always amazed by how many people in customer service and retail sales marketing, from junior right through to senior positions, actually have really poor social skills. Yeah, and I'm always kind of amazed about that because you know, it maybe I'm over hearing a conversation between, you know, a manager and a junior member of staff in it in a coffee shop or something. I'm kind of thinking that's so not the way to be talking to that person. That's totally kind of demoralizing. The spiriting just wrong. I'm kind of thinking these we live in a pretty efficient economy in this country, you know, compared with countries of stuff with corruption and the rest of it. Yeah, still so much potential. That's like trapped by people who don't really deserve to be in for more senior jobs that they've got, because they're not mentors coaches, they are toxic leaders. They are people who are going to be resentful of someone younger or older and them who's smarter than who's got more potential. And how much damage is that doing on an individual basis to that that person's wellbeing, the victim, but also beyond that, how much, how much value is is a business not getting out of its people or NHS Trust or whatever else? What could those people, you know, be going on to do if they were kind of, you know, if they just happen to bump into some fucking who would sort of give them a bit of positivity, let alone get the management that they deserve and some proper career development. Maybe just the same, look a dreadful of food service. You really you really struggle with it. You're not engage. You the customers. However, how can we help you find something that you are greater and yeah, whether you're a small shop or or massive chain, anyone can find time to have conversations like that with people, but it just doesn't cross the the conscience, if you like, of a lot of managers, which I find unbelievable. But then again we've promoted the wrong sort of people into management positions. So, you know, I guess we shouldn't be about surprised. Yeah, well, like I said, we've businesses and corporations today, by the majority of them, very much like what you just said, and the quiet like not youse, not cystic characters who roofles. You know, if it's a bit like you you know the warfall street up me movie. Yeah, it's like you know very much. It's a big, massive sit you know, business and the world's big system. You know, it's kind of about outdated and needs to be looked at, reframed. How they go about things and employees instead of, like, you know, it's targets, targets, targets. You know. Yeah, because I put some in immense amount of pressure on people if they're not hitting their targets. And there might be a reason for not hitting that target, some from what happened in the personal life or, yea might just not be feeling well. And, like what you said, like you know, what I've heard Gary v talk about his videos is that these higher people, these corporations and these managers, they like empathy. Yeah, thankfully. I think that's massive, massive thing. And the not they're just so driven on the results in the targets. And a lot of this, I think, comes down to school. You know, you're given, you know, targets and targets and percentages at school. M Even from like an early age, a b being my spoon fed. You need to get your targets and that's just how the world works, isn't it? But if these corporations and these managers can like step aside and go, you know, or how can I help you with your work? Or, you know, like you said, how can we instead of a boss saying, are you not got your targets today? Why is that? Yeah, too. Are you not got your targets today? You know there's something wrong. HMM, it's just, you know, make stuck. Pressure just kind of diminished, doesn't it? It's small talk to our way. Yeah, totally. And the other side of...

...it is, you know, does anyone reflect on whether the targets are sensible? Are they even achievable? To the still mean anything to annoy you know, customers of people are trying to make targets more than not making them. I mean one of the great things, I think, of a current era is there are so many podcasts available where you can you can hear some rubbish, but some inspirational, especially start up founder. So I was listening to one the other the I'm afraid the name of the company eludes me, but I'll I'll dig it up and provide it later. Yeah, which she that? Yeah, the code, the CO founder was company was being interviewed and she was talking about how they're doing really well. They they were in the marketing space, so they they've got lots of lots of customers and they had a range of different types of work coming in. But she was really, really aware of that an awful lot of the work that they were doing so, they were more than hitting their targets, like by one or two hundred percent over until one come. So that is just a position we'd all love to be in. But the great thing about being privately owned, another garry by favorite topic to harp on about, is you can actually choose which work you do going forward. So she knew, because she cares about her staff, she's got that empathy you're talking about there, Adam, that her staff was suffering. They were super busy and so on and so forth, and a lot of we're doing work I didn't really want to do. It brought in cash, it wasn't work that they wanted to do, and so she took a decision. Actually they were going to let a few clients go, but providing them certain types of work, because it then freed up the staff to be more creative. So we then gave better value to the pictures and the work they were doing for other clients. And you know, although it's kind of goes flies in the face of conventional wisdom to turn down money, especially in the early years of a business going, and it wasn't doing them any good. It was increasing volume, increasing profitability, but it was kind of at the same time, you know, chopping away at what made them different as a as an agency. So I just think that that way of thinking about things, which won't work for all industries and certainly won't work for all business owners, I supposed, but I really like that type of approach and I think that's how it should be. And I've sneaking feeling that the companies that are doing well in the next five or ten years, as economy continues to change, will be ones that begin to look after their people like that. HMM, yeah, but I could be wrong. I think I've seen that a lot in businesses and some brands, like in brand companies. I'm into my clothes and I'm there's some brands that I used to buy. Yeah, I don't bother buying them anymore because the prices of shot up, and I'm just thinking, you don't care about people, you know, the people buying your product. You just so focus on you know, they've created something like, you know, clothing brand. They've a kind of had mid range prices and then they've become popular and if not, as you know, what the prices up to, you know, an extra high amount, and then I think the yeah, okay, I understand a few more. Obouty needs to raise the prices, but some companies can completely lose sight of their product and they're people who buy it and the whole ethos. They just become kind of focused on, you know, the money aspect things and how much money they're going to make. Yeah, I'm sure you're right and I think that's a it's pretty unethical really is the sort of Hook people into a brand and lifestyle exact you know, I don't know whether it's to the flooded, to the young people, I suspect not. And then when you've got their attention, when you've got their commitment, when you've got, you know, a third of their wardrobe or whatever, you then just arbitrarily hike your your your profit by x amount every every year, every porter. I mean it doesn't it doesn't seem right and I would have thought you're not going to get away back for very long. I think there is a lot of pressure now from consumers that we all know companies got to make profit. We all if we run a company, we all want to be making a lot of profit. But you know, if you're Gucci and you're charging an extra x or y percent for a good that's one thing. Is What GOOCCI aren't doing is sort of saying, okay, so this handbag was, I don't know, a fifteen hundred pounds last year, next year, just because we say so, it's going to be two thousand five hundred. Because even though their clients are either really wealthy or face save up and they're really, really loyal to the brand, they wouldn't treat them like that. Yeah, even if they could get away of it, it just wouldn't do it. And that's the other thing, and that's what I like about, certainly the work I do...

...with the military, is it's that recognition that you're you're being judged for what you don't you know, for not doing what you can get away with, even if no one is looking. So your conduct as a brand, as an individual, I think is really important that, even if you could get away or something, Oh, you know, someone's left five hundred pounds sticking out of an ATM machine. Yeah, there's no cameras around, I could just steal that or pull put scarf over my head and grab it and run off with it. HMM, we're not going to do it. Similarly, you have a brand. You know X, you know of the moment lesure, black athlete a brand or Jim Brand or ever, trying to get brand names that may or may not yeah, you know. Okay, so they can now double the cost of the double the sorry, the price of their I thought, yeah, where the cost is probably coming down as their volume orders increase. Don't do it. It's just not it's not it's not nice. I don't know, life isn't all about dies, but I think people do want to be treated nicely and I think this stuff will correct itself. I think. Yeah, and I think if you can, you know, if you're so focused on the product, you can kind of lose sight where you come in on the point, on the price and the money. Yeah, it's like, I think I v said US some other guys that if you people who start up in business, you know, usually fail in the first year or couple of years. Yeah, you become so focused on the money and open you can lose sight of everything else that's helping it to work. Yeah, but if I think, you know, if you, like you said, with empathy and working with people, you have a much more effective business. Business will be more effective, I think, if they can have a bit of empathy, to take people aside instead of just being negative and talking to people a certain way and then firing them because they're that person feels on the valued and not they did something wrong. Yeah, yeah, and it just corrupts, you know, a person's belief system. I mean, I I know someone who had a really bad experience in a workplace and this, you know, it's put this person off going back into those jobs. But I was like, will not all jobs are like that. In I unders that's that's your bad experience us, those managers you had turn you what to do and speaking a certain way. Yeah, and if yeah, we'll try and things. Yeah. I mean I think the problem we've we've bouncing back after something like that, which can can really do a huge amount of damage, is you still you're still not totally sure that a new company will be any different or new employer will be any different because, and I know it goes both ways, when you go for, you know, interview as a candidate, you don't know what the business is really likeing. To be honest, the people interviewing you don't really find out what you're about either. They they find that you can do an interview well or passively in a presentation, and maybe go around your office and say hi to people. But beyond that it's still a bit of a gamble and you too are gambling. Unless you've got some trusted person inside the business will give you the like unvarnished truth about how things really are bad and good, or bad or good, you're actually totally taking a gamble. So, I mean, I do, I do sympathize with your if you're with your friend a back about that. Yeah, I mean I think in future things like glad asktore, as they become more more trusted, get more data into them. Probably linked in will have a role to play in this in future, where you get more transparency about what the culture, of the conditions, the expectations are in an employer, among them, beyond a job description and the usual, you know, mindless empty commitments to you know, personal development and looking after our people are people are most important resource. You get this day, many holidays, this many hours at work, and then the reality is you've got some kind of toxic, aggressive boss who makes you work, you know, more hours than they be contracted to, you don't feel able to take the holiday time and so and so forth. So I think if we could find a way of getting more people to share information safely about what a business is really like, it would be great because, a, if it's publicly listed or if it's otherwise got non executive directors or something, they will have to act on that, or should act on that. That information. If they are publicly listed and or, I don't know, they they're regulated by someone or other,...

...that data will be really important. No one is going to want to invest or lend a hope to, you know, a company that treats people really badly and your colleague could be more confident that when they go back there's like a an one thousand eight hundred and twenty chance of it being okay. was at the moment. They probably think it's the other way around. HMM. Yeah, I've I mean I kind of works in society for like ten years, nine ten years. No hotels, restaurants, bars, the stables. Insane. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it in my life and it's probably the same. And some of our industry is bought. Like remember we had like six head chefs and for managers, different managers or something, within within lights a months. Wow, what you're going to say a couple of years and that would be like that. It was within a year, within a year, and I remember, like you know, even from the house, stuff we have with coming and going, and I was like, like it kind of you kind of think to yourself how attached I get, how much, how much of an effort I make with these people, and are attached I get to them, because you, like you think they could be gone tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely, and I mean certain industries are very stressful and there's a lot of challenges. But if you can have someone to talk to about how you feel or we want to improve and hmm, people Empa fi as we you, I think a lot more people would stay in their jobs and they work a lot better. And I think that's the problem with like what we've been talking about, because I remember had something going on. I to the manager and I was, well, I need to talk about something, and this managers like on a scale ones turn, how importantism, and I was like eat, it pretty important. Like I tell the person didn't really want to talk to me that he has paperwork and you know it's mean. So you kind of think will because I think if you're listen to and someone takes your aside, you feel more appreciate person and in it just kind of takes those box that, doesn't it? Kind of, because if you feel a certain way and you work for a company, you want to feel valued and I think they're kind of our core kind of values. Person, isn't that? You want to go to someone and be listened to if you don't feel understand. Yeah, and you have a right to that as well, although very few people provide folk to whom you can do that. I mean the manager isn't really, in most organizations, the best person to to have nominated it as a got person to talk to about stuff, because you know they've got convicting priorities, haven't they? You know they they need efficiency. They if you're talking about relationship problem and it means you might be heading off to Wolverhampton to catch you with your with your ex partner or something, then that they're going to be thinking. Well, maybe the advice I give you a bit different to what I really believe, because I want you to, you know, to be here for the first sect of the third service every day for the next four weeks at least, and that you know, I know that this kind of stuff does happen. Managers as don't care. I mean that scale of one to ten figures is really horrible, but that's not great. I've heard very, very similar things to that as well and again from folk in technical jobs, and I'm non technical jobs. So the type of job you're in doesn't mean that these problems go away. We're just replicated at all different levels in all different industries. And then beyond that, what kind of you know, mentoring and coaching, career development? Any of US getting our jobs and actually, unless you're lucky enough to come across someone who looks out for you, not because they have to, because they because they want to, you could get through an entire I was going to say a career. Most people don't have the careers that they perhaps ought to have, an entire series of jobs with no one looking out for you or caring about you other than are you in work? Are you healthy enough to do a job? Have you got a disease that's that might contaminate my hundred thousand sandwiches were making today. You know, stuff like that. So you know in my experience were civil service, private sector companies, university's career development, just isn't something that's spoken about. No one really says where would you like to be in five years or ten years time? And that's largely because management in all those places are interested in you and as a person. There's and doing their job, but they don't see their job as being about developing others and they could be aware of all they ought to be aware of things...

...around them which are really obvious, and then less obvious things, but where they could make a real difference to people's lives just by having a quiet word, giving someone a bit of slack, giving someone a bit more work. A lot of this management stuff and leadership actually isn't isn't difficult. It just needs that empathy and that ability to reach down and maybe pull someone up a bit, as opposed to thinking hey, I've succeeded all, pull the ladder up behind me, screw the rest of you type thing. And the solution to all that, in case any of our lovely listeners are thinking of it, isn't to send all these people on management courses, leadership development programs which could cost five hundred pounds a day or five thousand pounds a day, or some people get k invested in them. Individually to develop, but fundamentally they're just bad people anyway. So you can give give them all the training education you want and they might work do really well on those courses and get a lovely shiny certificate and if they're being assessed, they might get an a plus for their work, but there's still, you know, a human crab when they come back to the office. They haven't changed their behaviors. So yet again, I don't want to be too pessimistic about the fact that there's an awful lot of nasty people out there, but the solution too, because there are some great people as well. But the solutions to the nasty people isn't to send them on courses to give them life coaching. Is Really to, I think, to show them up for what they are, but sort of say and look as all these other people who deserve to be in that sort of position. How can we give them programs of support, education, confidence building, communication skills to get them into the board room, vitmins, middle management, them into first line management, second line management, because there is so much potential out there, and that's I really like watching brogols undercover boss, the American ones. Yeah, they are great. There are bit sort of overscripted over grouse to the rest of the yeah, but you've got people and you know four years they've maybe not not spoken to anyone from head office. Someone comes from head office to see them, just to wander around and they're sort of in tears and it's like this is the bare minimum people should expect. Is like a boss walking about talking to them, because it's well known that walking around and talking to people is a really good way of seeing things and, you know, just being approachable, being visible. Why don't people do that? You know, you're talking there about your manager in food service. He has, you know, stuck in the office of Paperwork. You know, with management you don't sort of lose the ability to walk and talk to people, but the targets set on there, I presume, or about getting all their paperwork squared away and all the all the figures filed so that the comes the priority. But actually maybe some of that data entry could be done by someone else. Does it all need to be done? Can it be automated? Is there a better way so it frees up that manager to manage as opposed to the administration? Yeah, of course not included, right. I think that's kind of, you know, how business should be. Show this should be somebody, someone contort to it. This should be a platform or system in place rather than just being yeah, but there is. Why isn't this right? But I think no, no exactly. But I think one of the things that kind of kept me going there because the own the owner of the place where it works, Dad David Richards. He use he was one of the high up chairman. I say right of Ustin Martin is hypeen F one. He owned place and he would come in and you know he's done really well from self and you know your name. He taught to you. You know houspings and how you getting on. And I was like, you know this, this guy, you know he owns this place. He's done really well and he's really nice guy and it kind of gives you faith and people you know, and I think it kind of it make keeps you going to make sure want to be there if the CEO or the owner company comes and and he's take an interest in you and it makes all the other stuff, like, you know, other sort doesn't matter. You know, it's mean like you don't feel I feel you feel worthy too or something to be in a place if, yeah, I know the owner respect and sort of string to the bowl, you know that, but they...

...don't realize that they could make things better, make things easier for their staff, but also themselves if they did that kind of stuff. I think that goes all the way down to, you know, junior managers and all as well. But if they just came out of her office and wandered around, lent a hand with things, you know, bought everybody a Krispy Kreme donut or ever, you know it would. The rewards are so great from tiny, tiny actions and I just well, I wrestle with trying to empathize with people who don't empathize with this kind of stuff. And you know, if I'm in working or I I'm out, you know, eating somewhere or visiting something in office, and I see stuff go going on, I really do struggle to see why people need to be not doing important things which, you know, as we've just said, are are really really quite basic, you know, being there to speak to being there to comfort someone who's really upset. Yeah, how could you walk past? And you know, I've seen that places I've worked and I've seen that in place I've visitors in customer you know, where the cusp where fellow customers care more for someone who's upset than staff members. It's like what's going on there? I mean that is outrageous. But at the moment there's no feedback loop to punt it, let's just say, on the bad side, to punish the brand, the local manager, the franchise, the depthy manager, whatever. It just carries on. Yeah, people make about it on twitter, it might get picked up if you're lucky that the chances are, you know, nothing will change. I think it's it's that power aspect and I think it like it goes back to probably quite a few years, but you know, like it's people saying the business in the S and stuff quite ruthless time, you know, the Stock Exchange and that that kind of like, you know, force for approach and I think that's kind of what people feed on to get them to the top. And I mean there's a lot of successful business people are though. You know, I I wish an apprentice, you know, Alan Sugar and Yep, Claude Claudon, mere pretty ruthless people. But you know, they're not bad people and it's not balance isn't it? You know, it's being fashion and what you're doing and then being able to relate to people and things, and I think that's you know, a lot of the things and that I've learned on courses and you know, doing coaching and different things, and I'm sure you're the same, you guys, exactly. Yeah, it should be too tall, in school specially. There's no magic to it. Is that I mean? I these courses do give you some very, very valuable skills. But what then, most giving you, I think, and I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm wrong, is you know, the confidence that you know your own way of engage with people. Is Fine, and here's some extra bits of hints and tips about what not to say and how to help and tools to transfer to people, but basically gives you permission to talk and listen. Am I right? Roughly, because it all yeah, Hey, you had to talk to people or had to let of course you. And although everyone has got a mouth, that everyone's got ears and the rest of it. It's the way in which you know your values help you guide someone to what they want to achieve, as opposed to impose what you think they should want to achieve and so and so forth. Facts. That's all, all the the the tricks that you'll be you'll be talked no doubt you know some. I'm sure that the few people that have I've bumped into have been very impactful in terms of mentoring me. They weren't trained, but they would have. You would recognize their characteristics if you if you spent five minutes talking to them. But you know, again, undervalued skills and activities in our culture at the moment except in high guidward think in a high growth on the business side, high growth, highly competitive, talent dependent startups which really need to keep their people on board working at their best, not necessarily working more hours, but the hours that they do were they're just be using gold. And you don't get, you know, a Netflix corporate culture or a southwest airlines corporate culture or any other businesses by accident. And they don't get commercially successful by accident. They do it by building in, you know, the sort of personality that you have and the skills and openness to mentoring and coaching...

...that you have into the into the heart of the organization. It's not something you can fit on later. As I've said, about. There's management and leadership development programs. You know, it's a bit late when someone's a boss and then you're sending them on a leadership program I mean, what that about? I mean it's a bit like thinking I wanted fast moving animal capable of carrying, you know, six or eight people at very high speed over long distances, and then ending up with a Guinea pig. So, okay, we've got a Guinea people. We now need to convert it into, you know, something that could yeah, whether she's designed for batter Hamilt on this course, I'm around. You'd been it would be much better. So I think a lot of this sticking what I would think it's fair to describe as a lot of sticking plaster stuff. That's time to senior managers and leaders and our organizations in this country, and it probably everywhere. It's too late. They're already fully evolved, they already think they're great, they've nothing really to learn. That's why it's called a development program because there already amazing. They're just going to go to be, you know, a bit more amazing. Hm. No, it's crazy when you think about isn't it? When you take so back, you think about the things we're talking about. Think it is really and the problem is, you know, we're all too busy. Were all too easily distracted by the busyness of life and the need to have a career and to bring in money and or all they'll be other prayer stresses and strains and hobbies and positives and negatives and is they're going to be coronavirus and so and so forth that we kind of don't none of us have time reading step back and think this is just wrong. And of course, in itself, you know, we're not all going to go off grid and live in a log cabin in Montana or something. That's just that's not the optionial and we can't all set up high growth software companies either. But we're all going to have to find places to work where we are comfortable enough, valued enough, happy enough that we're committed to them, and I think there's that. There should be a lot of competition for great people as well. And I think as the economy, who knows how it's going to going to progress, but I what I see around, I think there's a lot of encouraging sighs. That's that's how things will be m because it's important to be optimistic as well as, yeah, deeply cynical and pessimistic. You know, there are people out there who've got great managers and whose HR depottments really, really really do look after them. And they're in smallish family sized businesses, they're in big multinationals, they're in bits of a civil service, they're in, I don't know, a police service, perhaps, are in bits of the military. So you do have pools and pockets and lakes and oceans of bad stuff, but there are, you know, okay, yeah's some things that there as well. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, we're all going to have to work a lot longer, even if not necessarily harder, hopefully in life, and I you know, we're going to need to be in places are doing us good rather than a harm. You know, I do see a lot of, you know, very stressed, ill people in a lot of the industries I've consulted to all that I've got friends in, and it's not sustainable and there isn't an infinite supply of people to replace them. So if you do chew up your best people and they either become demotivated or ill or they leave and do something different, try replacing them. It's expensive. You might not manage it. Even if you do, it's expensive. That constant Churley you're talking about in food service and hospitality and retail. It's expensive. It's not desirable, you know. Same with your sort of care and junior health positions and the rest of it. You know, this flow of people in and out is not great. And Yeah, also most of us don't want to have a career like that either, just going from no paid job to low paid job. We want to move up the escalator. HMM. No, it's huge. True. I am. I quite like Uncle Joe Rogan. J Rogan, I don't think I have actually knows another one of these great public speakers and foot leader type characters. He He. I kind of got into a kind of first start to listen to podcast and it was through him. But he's to host a TV show called for a factor...

...years ago and he does the commentary on UFC and he was martial arts and he's got a really successful podcast. It's probably one of the biggest podcasts out there, like the Jo Rogan podcast. Loads and loans of people on it and he is on one of his episodes is talking about society and jobs, and he was like talking about the jobs he did, like construction, these high limo jobs, and he's like, you know, even these corporate jobs, and he was selling. You're saying, like you know how society is. It's like, you know, you can get promoted. You buying the buy another car, you by the day to phone and then the next thing and the next thing and so forth, and then you get promoted. And then he's like these people are like that, you know, working in his boxes and then, you know, going home to them paying for a box and watching the bags and and never thinking outs box, right. I mean, yeah, and you can't. And he was basically saying, like, you know, do what makes you happy. And he said the his on the video. He said that his friend works like Nickelodeon and got fired. We left watching, he left and then he, you, then set up his own thing. Any said the guys successful now and is not happier, but it was based on yeah, you need to kind of find your hype. You know what makes you happy and isn't work basefully, yeah, or it shouldn't be something that feels like work. I suppose. I mean that I always struggle to do work because it's the bits of my job that I don't enjoy doing and frankly, I'm probably not very good at, but they come along with, you know, with the rest of rest of the deal. And I suspect an awful lot of people almost everything that they do is work. I don't really enjoy it and there must be elements of it or something much rather be doing. And the challenge is, how do they get from where they are to where they want to be? Because we can all even leaving aside money, and money might not always be the biggest barrier. It might be or it might just be how you cope with that in between bit, between two BITs, two types of income, like going from retail to, I don't know, running a riding school. You know, it's that bit in between of saving up the money or taking out a lease and buying horses. You know, how do you sought that gap? And the might be all sorts of creative ways to do it, but it's going to take a while, but it at least would be a plan. But how do we get people to almost of themselves because although we'd love to be at there talking to thoads loads of people being paid a couple hundred Uid an hour to life coach them. We might move. We don't have the resources to support everybody. They probably don't have the money and we don't necessarily have the answers either about how you get from working in next to running a riding stables. But why shouldn't just stay a dream that could only be solved through inheritance? They might already know that's impossible. They won't get anything, or a lottery win which again is so unlikely you might as well not bother. They all deserve an opportunity. How do they go back doing it? And I, you know, I don't know the answer to that. It's shouldn't. That's for the crazy things on that Garry v because, I mean he did a video. We spoke about something. Yeah, saw videos. Is giving a seminole. It's some guy put his hand up a shouted out it. Boy, he says, all, give me a job, and it's I want to come to New York, like yeah, in this copy, like it gave my high fire on stage nothing. He left his job and sold ocean and gove's gave him a chance to crea himself in this company. So bar mean, like said, those are just kind of like place, right time. Isn't it sometime very, very great hooky to be in that situation? And of course, well, that person had to pay, you know, somewhere between one and five hundred dollars for the ticket as well to get to the venue, to get time off to the venue and so and so forth. So there's a lot of you know, yeah, I mean there's more privileged folk, I guess, and someone who calls into the Ascary v show who literally could be from, you know, some rural village somewhere with no chance for telling any of his events ever getting in front of him. But yeah, it does happen. But I need more than just luck or hope or thinking, you know, the government's going to fix it or,...

I don't know, you know, the fairy God mother's going to fix it. is as likely. But I I know, yeah, wouldn't be patronizing. I think that's a really difficult, well, really important thing to avoids being patronizing about saying people, Hey, what's stopping you going from working in retail to running a riding stables or becoming a plumber or something, because actually it's quite likely there's a lot of stuff and some of it might be real and overcome able. Some of it might not be, but it might be actually that person good. If they just got the chance to share information with someone, they might say, okay, so you know plumbing is out for you, but what about and then some other bizarre thing that's sort of a bit similar. But a person thinks, I didn't even know that job existed. And then, you know, that could be the making of them. That could be their thing, because we don't all find our thing with a van or you know, there might be things out there I'd be better at doing than that I'm doing at the moment. It's just the right person that's come along to tell me. But I really do believe everyone has, almost everyone has huge potential and could have a much happier life than probably a much more wealthy life, spiritually and financially. It's just how they get from here to there when they're trapped by the daily grind, circumstance, psychology, bad background, good background, where they think they have to do certain thing. I mean it's really complex. Yeah, it's really can you know? I guess you know. If you twist my arm and say we'll come up with just come up what one slightly positive solution and I think okay. So your option might be for People Doing Life Coaching to donate a small amount of their time, I'm just randomly, to people they bump into perhaps and who seem to have a bit of a spark about them, and you could always use them as a case study as well and and work with free of charge or possibly for I don't know, equity return the feature or something, who knows, to help them out. I just don't see any other way in which an individual behind the counter is going to, you know, change their life really with that bit of external input. And I've benefited in the past from from counseling which has been undertaken for a charity by people who are very highly paid psychotherapists during most of the week, but they then donate some of their time to mind which is a great charity, and there then much affordable. I think you know feears going now, but you know, twenty five pounds an hour it's still a lot of money for a lot of people. I told you get that. But in terms of a counseling fee for one on one support and hints and tips and as a revelations of Pat Myself which even now I remember my memories dreadful. That was a really, really good invatior. So like an equivalent of that sort of thing, but you're in your vocation. Might be a way of slightly more people getting a chance to I don't know. It's almost like clearing a vs thing, isn't that is it's you know you don't have the answer, that you can help them find their answer. Yeah, I mean the best, the best way I can't of see it, or I was told, is like it's like a ball of string that's tangled up you. They've got the ball of string, which is the problem, and you're you're asking them questions and they kind of untangled the tangle that string themselves by you just kind of buy just facilitating that space and having that rapport you know, asking certain questions, you know, to get a pawn on the person feels listen to and you know, I think that's like with anyone. We've all we've all got the answers inside ourselves. It's just having that person there to listen to you and having that space and and you can kind of go from there. But I mean it's not a lot of people. Sometimes you have sessions or people you meet. They want to get that thing. I don't know. Actually, sometimes your customers have got unrealistic your clients have got unrealistic expectations of what magic you can do. That's I mean sometimes, I mean I'm just starting out in this field where I've done my training and I've qualified, thank you that, for a couple of...

...years. But when I was doing my training and in London, we had to do it in person with people and we're to be got to be coached ourselves and then we don't have to go to people and then you had an observer basically feedback on the sessions of what we did. But sometimes when you have you put you had to bring a problem or something to the table and sometimes what you know you kind of for I want to get this done there and then, but you might have to have six sessions to then kind of work through whatever it is that's going on. You know, it depends what it is and everyone's different. But what you're saying, with like that kind of service in the world today is, yeah, pretty expensive. I've looked at some people's websites and yeah, yeah, yeah, I think a lot. Well, yeah, and I got really to know how you do. I mean especially, isn't it? Yeah, and I think like the best thing to do, I think, is like you know, you invest in yourself. Is kind of priceless. Some, I think, some people do charge quite a lot. I mean, I I don't done it. I've done most of my session with free, yeah, for my training and stuff, and even now with people, some people that are fucking don for a while even are qualified. I'm so doing it free with them because I kind of think like you get your gaining experience and in the future that that money will come. I think that makes sense. Yeah, I agree, and not all about that. In that kind of work you're not focus just on the money because you working with people and I think if you just focus on the money, it's not you know, I mean it's like people do care jobs. It tem how to people who do these care jobs. But can't you can't be an interest for the money for that book. No, because there's other ways of learning minimum wage and it's yeah, it's hard and like when you work on people, it's a lot to take in. But yeah, it's I've found people fascinates. Oh, yeah, absolutely, Sac I think that's right. Yeah, as we get apparently ever, ever, so more technological and evermore it's connected from one another, the more I kind of think I'm just not sure that's true. I mean, I we all communicate with other humans far more than we ever have before, and it's possible across huge distances time zones. You are the other but also, I mean I and talk to a lot of people. I don't recognize the thing that everyone is, you know, eyes down in the phone, in capable of talking to people. I mean, loads of people are friendly and talk to I really think a lot of that depends on how you present and if you look like you're you mustn't be disturbed when you're looking at your phone. That's one thing. If you've got like a friendly, open kind of look about you and you don't mind if someone talks to you, I think it will probably happen. Yeah, you try to learn your yea and yeah, I think you're right. Probably Start Out, you know, not charging, because you know it also gives you a really strong message to communicate about your values and how seriously you take all of this, that you're not starting at or I've got my significant I can now charge x amount per fifteen minute session or per hour session or whatever. Here's a discount for you know, if it's one and a half hours or longer, here's a discount. If you if you, I don't know, prepay eight sessions or something, because you know, you're not a driving school. You're not, you know, music lessons for kid learning the trombone or something. It's it's far more fundamental than that. This life coaching, mentoring stuff. It's undervalued by those who don't know anything about it and it's appropriately valued by those. Yeah, stuff from it. And you know, in call bid if you plan and staying in call wor foot for a long time. But you know, I would think there's probably a fairly healthy immunity of folk down there who who would really benefit for yourselves asn't will be willing to pay for it once the word gets out that you've made a difference. Yeah, I mean carmls. Often there's more opportunities for a country business wise, like businesses, but I think there's a big need...

...for it for like younger people. Yeah, and there's every thing. Like a lot of people are spoken to students college or, you know, in jobs, and a lot of them don't know what they want to do or you want to be and whether they should go to university, and it's like so so. In that aspect, I think, you know, for my target more younger people. I think I'm in the flu child. Like to go more into the corporate side and kind of offer packages and and things like that to kind of helping, you know, employees, you know, in the work and things are. That's that's kind of it. You know, in the future, form the future. Yeah, I mean I think you know, you and the young people are talking about can, could do almost anything and you know you has carried you. Again, would say, you know, you're young enough to yeah, trial sorts of things and maybe some things won't work. I wouldn't call that under stake, but it, you know, something to learn from. You don't know unless you try. It's a truck supposing and then then, yeah, try and find a failures really well, I mean I think you know if you're taking an idea to dragons down and it's, you know, an umbrella combined with a toaster, you know it's going to fail because it's just stupid. No one's going to buy it and it's fundamentally unsafe. But you know, if you've got an idea that. I don't know. You could do Focus Group Base Life Coaching for college goers, minimum size of group six or something, and you'll have x amount of those per week within one hour commute from where you live or something, and it doesn't work. Well, you know, they were all reasonable assumptions. So if you discover actually right enough people willing to pay for it, well, okay, you know. No, I mean it's not like you could have known that in advance. So, yeah, don't don't. Yeah, waited much. You know, you might also find us it's a surprising success. Yeah, just doings and I think also, you know, young people call will do another. Rural areas do kind to seem to think that they don't have many options. You know, I've got to say to them, you know, if you think it's isolated now, thirty and always foot. Two years ago, when I was conscious of what was going on around me, it was where we're basing calms. Where's you? This is not not the prettiest part of Corball, for sure, quite prive places got a punt come totally. Yeah, something frived areas in the whole of the European Union. So yeah, sure, pretty grim, but always, always potential. But the thing is, if you if you rock at school with no qualifications straight away, you've got you've got big problems. You know, it really is going to limit the sort of jobs you can walk into to not many. But you know, all is not lost. With still operas, there are still opportunities, there are apprenticeships. They're not for everybody. The might not be in, you know industries you're concerned about, but you can. You can return to education. I again, you know it's tricky. Have you got enough money coming in? How does it affect benefits? What my friends and family going to think about it? All that kind of stuff. But there must be a there are different solutions to be but other than leaving the county with all without qualifications just to get a job somewhere, or staying and at best getting a minimum way wedge job with prospects but also being exposed to, you know, the risks of small count small town thinking the drug scene, etc. Etc. Etc. Or, worse, just thinking I'm not going to do retail and then suffering in every way, because obviously benefits are not a great, great source of income either. So there must be other things. They are going to have to be actually put it that way. They're going to have to be other things people need to do to to to carve out a positive future of themselves and everyone else could get agitated about banning, you know, second homes being bought in corball and protecting this village and that village. It's all just, you know, games really, because at that doesn't affect individuals, it doesn't make anyone else's life better. It's all playing to the gallery really, all that kind of stuff.

I don't have a great deal of time for all of that. We can lament the loss of tin mining and farming and some degree farming and fishing and the rest of it, but you know, there are still opportunities and you know, rock is a you know, a bright spot economically. PADS, though. Well, any of the bigger towns of got a lot going on and there are going to be prospects of people. It's just there's a competitive advantage to the individuals who can somehow or other, accidentally or otherwise, find a way of, you know, hitching themselves to stuff that's going up as opposed to down or just treading water. Very tricky if you come from you know and and the Beacon Hillers, Beacon Hill estate in Camborne or Pengega or something. To think beyond, you know, what you see beyond where you are. Where you are. It's done that couldn't possibly say let's parachute us in and fix these people's lives. That's that's not going to work either. But people have got to escape and they shouldn't have to leave the county. But they're also not going to be protected by the Parish Council taxing people with with second homes extra and we think that money to young people, because that's not going to happen. It's a trick on isn't it? I mean, I mean I see both sides coming off from not originally as a city for like nineteen years and they moved down here a family. So that kind of like small town thinking and it is very, very different down it's very, very different down here. Was I don't get caught up in all that. I just always kill Mysel to myself too much job, you know, and I think, like you said, if you're you're from down this way or you know, the small little just like small VI The rock everywhere isn't course. But Yeah, Dad, Dad, a lot of people probably don't do things or that they think a certain way based right on around the people that surrounded by and I feel, like you said, we comeborn and bobming and some of these areas. I mean even you know, even a country, but you know you're in that place and you can't. You know, it's probably easy for people to find all this deserves of me and then it's like, Oh, this sort of job isn't for me, education isn't for me. My family has never done education. You know, if I was being bold about it, it'd be like maybe everything you know is wrong. You know, just because you look at all the people who are doing education. Is there anything? What's the golden thread that's that's great about all of them? And the answers nothing. They're just getting on and doing it with if you don't like certificates, you don't like qualifications, you don't like study, okay, but how else are you gonna have a future? No one is going to bring you a better future. You're going to have to make it happen. You might not need to fight for it, and that's where, you know, the confidence of middle class people who go to private schools and so on really makes their life just so easy, because some of them aren't naturally intelligent, but they don't have much in the way of disbelief. You know, they're really, really confident in themselves and that counts for a lot in our society. Wrongly, obviously, because a lot of them are just, you know, bags of air. But they are not going to get called out for a very long time. So we a sail through life believing they can do almost anything and and do well. Now I don't think the rest of us should copy them, but we should know that's have a world works and the other people have an equal or great greater right to those people's lifestyles and careers because they do actually maybe have natural talent or they've struggled or they've, you know, come into this after doing something else. And you know I'm all about where can people find ways of outpacing people like that who've just been told forever you can be great, and a lot of kids haven't been told ever they've been great. They may not even have been told by an in buy a, you know, an adult in their lives that they're loved and you know, you then want them to become, you know, really successful in life. That's really tricky. They you know they are probably struggling to get through the day or if they don't realize they are, they're significantly underachieving what they could. But you know, none of us would do any better in their place. But you know, the more ladders, ropes...

...escalators we can drop sense of that people who at least want to, you know, reach out and try and get on that bottom ladder, bottom rung of a ladder or bottom step of the escalator, the better. But you know, it's not going to come from the government, very unlikely. It's not going to come from the job center, it's probably not going to come from the Salvation Army. It's probably going to come from people just making these ladders themselves maybe, or just being lucky about your bumping into you or someone positive at a shop or bumping into the parish priest who happens to say, Oh, I met someone and you know his dad is, you know, looking for apprentices to do x y Zad. It's all chance stuff. But you know, people need to find a way of being the ones who are up for being exposed to those chances. Really. But you know, if you're in a bedroom, you're on your eight for ten Toke of weed that day and known in your family has had a job for one or two generations and the weather's bad and x and wine. Said, you know, that's a lot of things in your way, and I'm certainly not judging people who, you know, find it difficult or impossible to escape. That is it is difficult and I think, I mean I like these kind of people into talks of these pretty people who speakers and half of these people who were successful. You know, they've come from our tones. Like went free. You know, she went from the point lost. People aren't there. You've done through a live yeah, Shit and off. It's like often. So what you choose to do with it. I think it's soon as some more becomes a victim, you know, than your front all your energy, hard window. Yeah, that's these. You know, it's a lot of people out there. Turn the lines around and I sang old people are living. Are People where used to living, Nottingham, and they, you know, go to the I play football in the park and those, you know, some mber ferries around that and some people I used to know. These the go to like you offenders, or is it called pain? And they go in there for a couple of months and they come out and they beat and then but that that they felt safe on the inside. So they know that's another set of problems. So it's like a rubics cub in some way, isn't it? It's like yeah, it is, and you know we the thing is, we can't save them all. And you are yeah, I mean I think you've some you summed up the challenges are really, really well. I mean you're almost sort of saying that. I think that there is some responsibility on the individual to try their best. We can't. They can't all be Oprah Winfrey, but they could all be inspired by Oprah Winfrey or whoever else your idol is. I don't know if Tony Hawks came from a if he's of skateboarding guy, came from a tough background or not, but you know, loads of people do do skateboarding. Why couldn't more of them turn professional from Cornwall? Why couldn't it be the place that breeds surfing champions, skateboarding champions, BMX champions and whatever else? It wouldn't take a lot. Would that be more valuable to the county van the Eden Project, or possibly it would interesting people. I guess setting up a training facility for the future elite of adventure. You know, a journaline sports in an old China clate. It than there is a load of plastic bubbles and to coffee trees on the palm tree, which is going to change the world. Spoiler, it's not, but it's very pretty. Yeah, but, yeah, I think you're right. But you know, but in a way it ends up being a bit like survival of the fittest, doesn't it? You know, Oprah Winfrey made it. How many didn't? Is that her fault? No. Does she have any response ability for the ones who didn't make it? No. Did some of those people advance more than they would otherwise have done? Yes. How do we make more people get out of Ping Gangan and, you know, Priv at doing something? Don't know. Are A few doing it? Yes, there enough. How do we fix it? Let's not do a load of academic research about it, because that's just going to be, you know, very month good money after bad. But you know,...

...there are solutions, there must be. But there is a way. I don't think it's you know, great that people like you are out there. Is individuals working with individuals who are the ones who want to progress. It's a shame you can't lift everyone up, but it's not your responsibility either, but obviously as a vested interest in a way of you helping as many people as possible, because then the word gets out and more people will be drawn to you and you'll have a, you know, a really big business and future of loads of loads of associates working for you. So you know, this could all work out beautifully. HMM. It's it's almost like I this podcasts. It's to push the bout a little bit and it causes like a ripple effect, isn't it? And then knocks on to some Phin or some nonsthing else and on something else, and I think that's how life is kind of is, isn't it? It's like everypple. You know, one thing happens, another thing happened, you meet someone else. But I think try and get that because try and get people who were been talking about a bit on deprived there in those areas where it's hard to get that started, because I think, like I watch the good documentary on BBC, than if we watched it, and I'm it was cot, something that success and they did a document try on these people who were going to university and there were four different people. There was like this Asian Guy who lived in a rougher part of London and he was going to, I think that was right, Cambridge University. There was another guy, he was white, Male, bit more classroom, more decent part of London. I was going to the same university. And then they tracked them to graduation and they all graduated and then they followed them after graduation and there was like the guy who was white, who was from bit more market part of London. He was in a well paid job and like an internship thing, and the guy who did the same course, same university, from a different part of London, WHO's Asian, was still looking at work and he I don't know if you you ever find this because you you're you working like universities of lecture. But I think we need to be like more more open and more less judge mental and, you know, to give people a chance. It doesn't matter where you're you know Alan Sugar, you know I'm a sugar. You know, he came from very your part land and yet cancer state, and I think we we kind of judge a lot and we kind of doesn't matter, you know, based on your accent or how you look or how it really shouldn't. You know, you're willing to get to you right. Yeah, I mean the key thing is, you know, being the first, and let's say The v Asian Guy was the first in his family to go to university. The problem is he's not competing on a level playing field after university still, because the chances are that the upper class white guy has got, you know, lots of family and friends in all sorts of useful positions in businesses, in in London and and forever field, probably, you know, Hong Kong, except EXCEPTU. So I know I know a lot of people who've had very guilded progress and you know, it's not wrong, it's just connections, it's just how things work and sometimes it's exactly the right thing to recruit someone from your family or someone that you know of from someone else because they are exactly the right fit. Sometimes it's jobs for the boys. I'm helping out Dave by employing his son and that will get me some advantage in a contract. You know, who knows? It could be all sorts of reasons for it and also, of course, the individual may or may not be be the best person for that job, which we really, you know, we don't know enough. It's impossible to know enough about there are decisions being being made about that recruitment. But of course, you know, the Asian guy or me rocking up in London. You know we don't have that, I suppose, a technical whether it would be like hinterland of connections, of favors, of patronage of Uncle Joe knows James at UBS or such as, such a berkeleys. You know, they haven't got that. So they're struggle is greater to get into those institutions. There then stuck applying like everybody else through the the generic graduate recruitment schemes. But you know, a degree from Cambridge ought to really,...

...really help with all of that. But it may be that he feels, you know, his confidences is let down by the fact he hasn't been snapped up straight away, because most Cambridge graduates are snapped up very, very quickly. There may not be racism at play. Who knows a lot of things, but it you know, overcoming inequality is is complicated and messy and you know it's going to be a bit brutal, some of it, no doubt, which doesn't make it right. It's just a reflection of how society is at the moment. And also, though, I'm very aware of some very, very big employers who would absolutely look beyond background connections and always just go for the individual. And that's that's the future, no doubt about it. That is the future. There's probably going to be a generation or two as this kind of traditional way of recruiting people through friends and friends or kids of friends sort of dies off. But it's such a it's so unlikely to be the right way of working most of the time, but it it. But it needs to die off and it will. But yeah, playing fields aren't level because they've level of and they have been, but they're still nowhere night, nowhere like as levels they ought to be. HMM. I mean, I fellow had an interview. I was an interview while back. I've never had this before, but the guy said to me I don't really like it. I don't like ceviews. You know, put the CV down. He's like, kind of well, I have looked at this stuff. Put the CV down. And then he's like and as I thought, wow, I was like that's how which thatarts how it kind of should be in some way, not just doing someone by the people is a calot. You stuff that. I don't realize you these. You know Tony Rights, I think, because a lot of jobs to stuff. It's all very big paper structure. Does one official though? I mean it goes back what we're saying earlier about, you know, a lot of seeds and interviews being great for finding out somewhat how someone is at writing a CV and presenting an interview and presenting at the presenting stage, but it doesn't tell you anything about the individual. I mean they try it with like, yes, an example of when you dealt with conflicts in the workplace. But you know, most of us are wise enough that we've got all those answers prepared anyway. So they may or may not be entirely true. Who knows? Impossible, you know, questioning someone to know it's basically is it convincing or not? Yeah, and again it tells you nothing. It's pretty I mean it makes you sweat a bit, that doesn't it? If you're put on the spot by being told tell me about yourself. I mean you're very, very vulnerable at that moment. Yeah, yeah, but I know. Okay, so that's a few questions. About Yourself, from your experience, but the mill. So are you safe to talk about other some things? Kind of man? Well, I'll let you know if that's okay. So I doubt it. I mean one of the problems for sealing with people who have allegedly done loads, loads of sense of stuff is they do stay that say things like all, I can't tell you about that, and most of the time that's utter and nonsense. I mean, even if that were the case, I wouldn't be so rude as to say it in that way. There's loads of things I've of course, where I wouldn't tell anybody if I could remember them, the full details. But the full details don't matter over locations. I can just talk about the problem and ways of solving it. So, yeah, never be taken in by that nonsense. Yeah, Nice. Yeah, just double check, like, but I mean I did, I in astly, but I was going to join the army, so I did. Could it serves that calls of college uniform service thing was that? Yeah, so that might my chooses and their signals. Many years, yes, Northern Ireland and etc. And I kind of, like you know, you know, really got on with them. I looked up to them. I spoke a lot of police officers who ex Armin and I'll join the army. So we did like army courses with college and and look at life courses with the rifles and all logistics. Yeah, justice, yeah, I'll see then we will really good experiences. And Yeah, the the very I like how straightforward the they are, how forward thinking the are, but little of confidence they have to go and carry out, you know, situations that you think are and possible. But what? What role you have in the military yet? But what's what's your experience?...

Or Yeah, I'm shutting pretty similar. I mean I've only ever been a reservist, but I've worked alongside the military since my first job, which was in one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight. So that's going back a really long way. I mean I think the key thing about the the military at as an employer, is for it's as good and as bad as you might imagine. So, you know, many people have an amazing career, great commanding officers, their career development is taken very seriously, they do amazing training, get great qualifications, have great experiences in combat or otherwise, and come out of it. You know, yeah, have probably having transformed from whether the background was but it could have left school at sixteen, Seventeen, perhaps no other options in the local area, and so on and so forth. And they've really come good. And then you know there are others who've had very, very different, much darker experiences, and that's got to be knowledge and that's that's more. That's more people than it ought to be. And you know it is still the case that if you get a bad annual appraisal, which may be unfair, your entire future career can be either slowed down or, you know, have a ceiling put on it. So there are some elements of military life and promotion and so on which are really really you need a lot of the tension, but in a way that also reflects wider society. There's toxic leaders outside, there's toxic leaders inside the military. There's people who stick to the rules, as people who break the rules, as people who get away with stuff. There's other people who don't get wet. You know, it's just what do we expect? You know, it's just another human structure. Yep, it's charged with some pretty serious stuff at one end. It does lots of expensive stuff in the middle and so on and so forth. But you know, it's mixed the individuals ideal with and I work with a couple of hundred military personality any one point in time. Like I say, most of them have left school at one thousand six hundred seventeen, no qualifications, have been commissioned to become officers, largely in the army, a few from the other services, in their possibly late twenties, more likely early to mid thirt is. So they've risen through the ranks, they've had very long standing careers and now I'm helping them get an MBA, for which they don't need any prior qualifications. Long as over the age of nineteen, they can go straight in on that program and complete their NBA in two years pathway. It's also open to any anyone else as well, though most of the military get little bit of financial assistance to help one with the costs, but it's still even if you're paying for it yourself. It's about K which form a master's degree is is an amazing wrist point. So I'm doing my little bit of disruption at you know, a few civilians, but mainly military people who want to take this route and you know, on the whole there and intelligent, savvy, well read bunch, well read eye even know what's going on in the world around them. What they lack is confidence, confidence about academic study, because they've had drummed into them at school academic stuff is difficult, you're a failure, you're very stupid, you come from a sinker state, you're never going to amount to anything. And sometimes in the military people said that to them as well. So you know, my task is to sort of say wow, forget everything told before. Actually, academic study can be really efficient. It can be fun if you want it to be fun, but it might not be. It kind of spriends how you're wired. But at the very least it won't be as bad as you think it will be. You don't have to jump through hoops. You have to tick certain boxes, but there's many ways you can do that. Here's how you reference a source of teacher of the basics in, you know, thirty eight seconds. You'll get it perfect. If you watch this little video, it takes three minutes. A lot of stuff is really, really simple. Genuinely, it is so simple about academic referencing and structuring essays and the rest of it. But they're expectation of how difficult it's going to be means that they look at something incredibly simple as I see it, and see something which is for some of them insurmountable before I before I start working with them, and it's like, what are you talking about, Phil All I'm asking you to do is put the author's names in brackets with the year of publication and the page number and then close the brackets. And they're like, is that what academic referencing is? As a in the text to have Tom referencing is and they're like it's that all? And I'm like, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, he has no clothes. So I mean I love doing...

...yeah, easy for me, but be because I love seeing on their faces or on their voice on the phone them kind of light up and think it's almost as every been let into some big secret, and it kind of is, because everyone goes on a bat. All academic writing very, very difficult for a can't say I have to say the paper, the say thinks, and I'm like hey, it's really easy. Be Make It interesting, because I've got to read it. I don't want to fall asleep and see you can say I think and not the say things and yes, you can quote from a newspaper or a podcast or a netflix documentary. Yes, you do need a few academic articles, but there's millions of them, so choose some interesting ones and they like I didn't know you could do it like. I know, if only more people spoke about it like this. But I'm only saying this because of of education. I've had that people, you know, they did speak to me like that, but they communicated that sort of message and now I'm happy to do that to the military so and anyone else. So I love it because, you know, military people are very good at their trades, their crafts, their combat activities, their pt they ever going to beat me on that all day long. Not Not a problem. With the academic stuff. It's a real fall in their flesh and a lot of them are held back from great, excellent postmilitary careers because they don't have a degree. Well, we can fix that in two years and they can have some fun doing it. And then they go and tell their families this academic stuff isn't as difficult as I thought it was. And you know, some of them will say not my words, anyone can do it, and I'm like that's victory. Yeah, that's winning right there, because actually that gets to people I could never reach directly or the university could never reach, or probably the government can never reach, and be believed. You know, sue or Jack or whoever is out there up in Newcastle talking to his young cousins saying don't write off university. You could do this. You you might not feel you do it financially. Don't worry too much about student loans, but from a intellectual point of view you can do this and you know that's going that's going to change lives and in my part in that is very small. By love doing that, because you know that that's pretty important to me. But also I'm helping these people reach their true potential, because all I'm doing is sort of saying it's El is crazy. Really. It's easier when you think it is and they're like I don't believe you, and it's like well, here's an example, and then after a couple of examples that they get it. I'm not doing anything amazing. I'm not, you know, selling them a twelve step process. I'm not. I'm not telling them that you know, they're special in themselves. I'm just showing them that they can do it and there's some, you know, easy ways to fit it in around the rest of their lives. And I like that because you know, no one else is telling them it, HMM, and you're like kind of giving them it's a bit looking at bridge and given the bridge is the steps, there's we need to do. Yeah, absolutely, because the other thing I should do is I could work intensely well with them for like three of by don't really have a time for it, but you know, I could squeeze in a few to work with them three or four hours a week and, you know, be there at their elbow as a base. They scooled out their essays and and you know, did research and stuff. But, like with you and life coaching, that's not what you want. You don't want people to be dependent on you. You don't want people who can only work when they're in the Lecture Hall, in the Seminar Room, talking to me at a table. You want them to be, or I want them to be capable of doing this on their own, on a plane, at home as they're commuting, just getting on with it and then checking in with me through occasional bit of advice or meeting up once in a while for a chat, like you do with people. The last thing I want is for them to be compet is, to swap being totally at sea and unable to do this for being totally dependent on me. That would be a nightmare for them and me. It doesn't do any good. It's that was it called comes into like safe safeguard is. It's fine line, like your but like personal boundaries and it's professions and boundaries. Like you have someone arrive and knocking on...

...your door your house on some day evening, be like or what's yeah, nic going on? Yeah, you know, and placed on you because actually, you know, traditionally the academic is a person who knows everything. Fundamentally, I know very, very little. I know a little bit of very deeply about a couple of things. Beyond that, I don't know much. What I do know is how to structure an assignment, how to do research, had to do reading really quickly, how to do referencing. They're just processes, you know. Almost anyone could learn how to do them. So if I charge people up and give them all these key skills, transfer them over, you just run off and use them and actually, after a couple of hours of that, they could go and teach other people. So it's giving people power back. So I'm temporarily powerful because I've got the knowledge and I know how to do this stuff. But and it's like hey, you know, as you said before, this this call somewhat hesitantly. You know, what shall I call you? Should I call you doctor, this visiting professor of that is like no, you know, it's mills all the way, because I do have those those statuses and I've got lots of experience and you're very kind about all that. But actually I want people to judge me not on my CV bit like that interview you, and to don't judge me on my CV, judge me on how I how I am in this conversation. And the chances are soldier X, we're only having this conversation because I'm a friend of, or I've been working with, you know, two or three of your chums and you've heard about me and that's what's brought us together, and that's all great. And here, by the way, it's some powerful you go often use it. Yeah, because I don't want people thinking I am I somehow have have the secret of I'm keeping to myself because it doesn't do really good. I can't. I can't under time as that. Even if I thought I had the secret to academic study, which I don't really, I can't sell it because all it does is help individuals get good at what they do. But to me it's just like second nature and I want people to do well and then it helps them out compete others, including civilians who don't have their background. When they go in at thirty, forty, forty five or a bit older into jobs. Rather than coming out into entry level positions, they can go for senior mid management, you know, second careers, and that's what they're going on to do. Nasie, it's really rewarding what you're doing and to be to be involved in the I mean it's aboutguing some of the back, isn't it, and helping of a people another nine in Bote on and being able to it's like kicking aboard someone and then go and call you know, you need to go into this now. It's kind of just compatility and there'sn't often. I think you'll be discovering as well, but you have a boundaries between life, coaching and Almo an education are pretty blurry actually, because, yeah, there's many someone comes to you with with, you know, business problems or they want to a change where they live in the country of a world. Part of that process is going to have to be okay, you're going to have not you, your client is going to have to go off and do some research about. Yeah, you know, can you be a nurse in value are to or, you know, how are you going to set up such as such a business in Norfolk? You're going to have to help them work out how they do their research, education, learning, making contacts with people somewhere else and equally with me. Some of those people ring up and they've the problems that are holding them back are related to they've got no emotions left. You know, they're struggling with something in their personal life which any of us would struggle with, and you know, they've got nothing left to give to the to the academic study. So it's like have a break. And then they might say, I don't want to have a break, I want to keep going. That's fine, let's have a chat. Let's have another chat later in the week, two chats next week. Come up and see me a week after. You know, we can you know, help recharge your emotional batteries a bit. So, you know, I think all the things that with you and I are doing are also related, formally or informally, and I think that's all good as well. We can cross signpost to one another as well. Yeah, yeah, so sort of I wasn't on the same kind of way learn from the same similar very kind of slight some were. I think it is. Yeah, the work. A lot of people don't think it is, which is when I see colleagues, you know in this job and in many other jobs I've had, and you know, they send an email to someone, I think wow, if I was on the receiving end of that,...

I would be shaken, if not upset, because they're just not aware that, you know, a student at the other end of our email is perhaps in a lonely, vulnerable place. You know, okay, you could just tell them you've got the deadline wrong, but why don't you sort of say it looks like you slightly misunderstood the deadline. Don't worry, we can, you know, flex that by five days or so. Don't worry about it. Why is that more difficult than you've mispead the deadline. You should have got it properly, you could fail. You know, you've got a choice between how you message. If I would say you don't have a choice because you shouldn't send the first one. But anyway, stepping back from it, we've got how we deal with people, whether they're clients or customers or students or colleagues or family or whatever. Why are people so readily going to the shitty damaging power, playing negativity, when I don't get a buzz from being rude to people. I do know some other people do, but why do we need to do it? Yeah, yeah, it's it's that's something that king to startles me. I mean I I've learned from you know, experience, and you know when you have a relationship, if you're in a relationship with somebody, you can or anyone, you can send the message. Sometimes if you feel angry or you might feel upset, texting and worst possible form of communication to use and like it comes across completely different and it might be misinterpreted and I think you like, you know you have to just talk about it, you know, so you can, we can we chart me or less met up or and talk about what what it is like. I know that on in a university. Haven't got the time to say, Oh, in it. Can you know, let's sit down of a chart, because it's thousands of people. Asn't any UNIVERSES, so need to use emails. Yeah, but I'm we you can also send a most mail. You know, we've got that facility, you know. Yeah, it's always that's a lot. I'm fortunate I don't work with huge amounts of students, so I can absolutely just pick up the phone and speak to someone. And I kind of think actually there isn't really an alternative at any university because you're a module would only have at most a couple hundred students on it at some universities are. But then you share that module with several colleagues that each of you would, I say, only that is quite a lot. Each of you would only be looking after, in the very looser sense, a couple hundred students. But if you knew someone was going through a tough time and it isn't really the biggest deal in the world to actually reach out to them, I don't think. I think you're letting letting people off the hook. Go a bit Adam of the Mesay. So yeah, yeah, I'm not aware of like universe. Yeah, it's very easy for colleagues too high not current colleagues obviously, but you know for people in this sort of industry to hide behind numbers or we've got to keep a professional distance and all that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, that's all true. But you know, if you see someone is visibly upset, yeah, just a word or so you know I've got any issues, drop you a line or drop my colleague a line. You know we'll see you through gain. It makes such a huge difference to the individual, such a huge difference. So when we're fighting for for students, you know, against Competitor Universe is here and elsewhere. This stuff helps recruitment and you know, one of the great things about where I work at the moment there is this genuine sense, which isn't written down anywhere, of care for student. So you know, if someone is upset is having problems, I know loads of my colleagues would bend over backwards to help that individual or group of individuals and and make things fix. And you know, the admin system quite often kicks in to help people out as well in ways which sometimes they, the students, won't even realize. As happened, which is even better, I think, because little it's a lot of pressure, isn't it? You know, being student and I think, like we the email, if you can reframe how you putting that message across by saying I've noticed that. You know, yeah, haven't handled it in you know, would you like to talk about it and we're to help you, rather than say dump trunk Christ, because I remember, because I tried university. I. Yeah, was it not some trend? Yeah, and I did criminology for number of months. That are the course wasn't for me. By...

...remember, like I had a some of that and then I had an email like that and I'm a feeling last time as worse. Yeah, like you feel like your life's gonna, yeah, be over if you don't get in. And I think if you can all someone say I's okay. You know, just reframe how everyone does well out of that, because the student is reassured and also signposted towards some support. They might they still might not take it or be able to take it, but at least that sign posting has happened. Some of the students will, you know, do everything, make contact, get the work sorted, get it in on time or just after time, and you know that helps the university as well then, because the university is judged by how many people complete each I don't know about module, but let's say it's module each year and progress from one year to the next and then ultimately graduate. So if you can keep someone on board by being kind to them, you should do it. And then you know, when they go back to their their hometown and they tell people, I went through this tough period, but Dr Hakim or Mr Gupta or Joe Smith or whatever you know, sent me this email and he offered to meet up with me and gave me an extra two days. They they benefit, the individual lectures benefit, the uni benefits, the sector looks great internationally if those are international students. So then go back home and say, God, those people really cared for me. Or even if like one or two people cared for me, they get they're going to think that's the whole organization. So I mean there is every reason to be kind and generous and even if you're not going to be warm, you could have just at least just be polite, because no one loses. This is what I don't understand about being chicken to people. Is like who been? WHO benefits from it? Okay, so you've had two fun of sending out, you know, a really formal note telling people this is really bad and everything could go horribly wrong. But no one likes that. No one likes getting a red bill or a parking ticket, let alone that sort of message. So that that customer relationship types stuff is changing in in education. So you're hopefully the futures better than the past. Yeah, I think like you get more, you get more out of a person. Don't know, if you talk, you know, if you've got a team of people, you talk to them in a positive way, you get a lot more out of them, I think, rather than that negative approach. I mean I think like it depends. It's an excuse in somewhere. But like in other sciency chefs are stressed out. But I I've seen some chefs like snap and react in a negative way and talk to people, talk to the other chefs like absolute I've seen because I used to work, I work for Pauline's worth. Okay, here's a mich can star chef. He's got quite a few places in padstow and it's got a place in rock now he's over to the miners and he's very positive. He's very like, you know, yeah, calm and collective and understanding, while I was just like wow, you know, like because you see the old I mean Gordon Mom's using a lot of pressure when he started out. But what of that? I thought of how this guy was now and I look, I fought back to how Gordon Mom's you was when he started. He's like shouting, he's like calling people names and speaking negatively, and I feel like you won't get away with that using an office jock. And I kind of wonder as well how often good round actually did that, because there are so many people for what I can tell you got amazing, amazingly positive stories about working with him that he probably reserved a treatment to people who he knew would benefit from it. And some people do benefit from a bollocking and that's the only thing they respond to, and I realise it. Well, I don't get the impression that he would bully people in that way because I would think he'd end up in tribunals and other things, and rightly so. But you are you are totally right, and you know a lot of the top top chefs or top experts and professionals in any field. They can't afford to be losing it and yelling and screaming and, you know, upsetting the service even more by intervening like that, not least because it will probably kill them. You know that that is going to be bad for a blood pressure and it's a sign that you lost it, isn't it? Yeah, I mean I remember a chef said something to me. I've had now it's one called me like in an idiot. It's like you're a fan idiot. I was like sorry,...

...shuff because I mess up an order, and he's like yeah, you have f an idiot and I was like, I've done other job. So I'm like, God, are you spoke to someone? Are Done? An offer should be out the door. You couldn't. You can put you in a lot of organizations like yeah, it's just, yeah, weird normal. It's weird. Is it is wrong, but I'll ultimately, I think that will change as well. You know it's going to take time and but yeah, it's unsustainable. You can't just treat people like that. Yeah, kind of, if I've want to how it likes as used. I had to laugh about it. Yeah, it was quite funny. It's weird. It's weird. I was some things. Probably you're the same some stuff. Some stuff it just it bounced off from some way. Doesn't huge sign of you know, maturity and also of just being comfortable in your own skin that you can just laugh at that could type of thing off or just not react at all. I did a podcast the other day in the moments after I've been involved in it in a road rage instant. It wasn't me, it was raging, obviously affecting on on all of that, and it's like, you know, why, why would someone take the risk? I mean, first of all they were obviously they were in the wrong, but why would you then stop all traffic, get out of your car, you know, make threats towards someone you know nothing about the person in the other car, in the same way that that chef yelling at you doesn't actually know how you're going to respond. How thought they given to the fact that, you know, it was a lot of Nice in the kitchen and you know some people really don't respond well to, you know, being called and that thing idiot. It's very, very risks as rate, road rage stuff is very, very risky. And then you know I'm at a verious kind of Zenda in in my life at the moment for all sorts of great reasons. And even as he was, you know, doing all this stuff, I was kind of thinking, I can't do anything other than feel sorry for you, because even if you hit me, and even the fact that let's not play for all the scenarios, but even if you do that, you're going to get a criminal record or you're going to get a further criminal record that is going to do you know good whatsoever. You are taking a crazy risk, or what, to me at least, struke is a crazy risk. Plus, if I was a gangster, I'd be getting out of the car and, you know, you would be severely injured. Or what makes you think I don't have a sawn off shotgun or, you know, a really bitey dog in the backseat, but I'm going to throw at you? I mean if all the unknowns this person was was playing with but just so caught up in their emotion, blinded to it, blinded to any risk, really weird. Here's a weird one. I mean that's that's really powerful way to think. I think how you how you've kind of what you've just mentioned they're like. For you to have that mind certain that ways quite right powerful thing, because you're your kind of light, not taken on all that emotion, you're not taking on all that stuff. You're kind of putting up all aside and kind of being like, you know, on Folcus, on the person feels it's not, I don't like your cross the stomach, some kind of priestly sanctimonious character. Doing that now because I've taken a whole load of actions and the rest of my life to make sure that I'm as mentally and physically fit as possible for the rest of my life, which sounds very grand, but it does require dealing with a lot of loose ends and going through therapy and getting consultations of the doctrine, so and so forth, and it means that I can now respond in a way which, yeah, but it's also a much more me rather than you know, a year ago I might have said you're just being an idiot or something and that would have escalated that situation, whereas all I said was just drive through the gaps. Are you know. So you know if but you know, we all ideally need to be in that sort of space where we can see things of what they are. That me arguing with this drugged up guy maybe jumping around in the road. I'm going to win nothing by arguing with him. I don't think I can argue with him. All I'm going to do is making him even more agitated and uncontrolled, letting go on his way. If you need to swear at me, that's fine. I'm not going to report that to the police because, you know, we've all got away, both he and I, without, you know, anyone being hit. So in a way that's a victory. But I feel...

...for him because, yeah, I mean different he would have got a pasting from someone else or bull shot in the head. Yeah, it's just horrible, just horrible, and heat. You know, he didn't. He doesn't deserve that either. He's made a mistake. Let's hope he doesn't do it all the time. It could have ended really badly. But yeah, it's just one of those little moments and he kind of think, HMM hiss. You know, any of us being driven by emotions is is just not great and we've all been there in I'm not really a road rage person, but you know, we've all responded in appropriately on emails and text or that kind of thing, and it's I actually that's because we we perhaps didn't have an ability of being able to have that empathy and step out of that situation. But we need that and we need to do whatever we need to do to the rest of our lives to make sure that we keep carrying on being who we are, as opposed to being changed by our job, by our relationships, into things we don't really want to be. And certainly I've done that in the past. You trying accommodate stuff and you realize that's making me someone I don't want to be and you know you need to exit back because I think that's very bad for you. HMM. Last really, it's really true and what you're saying that because I just got so I'm still listening, but I think this podcast thing stops after two hours ago, like four minutes or okay, so well, let's let's let's get it wrapped that even. Yeah, but what you're saying there, the man moved the Wolf Wall Street because the movie at the end, like you know, goes for that crap. And everyone else and the guy who he is, he just like public speaking now and business seminars, but he can look at back on all the stuff he's doing. Bela, that's wrong. Now. Yeah, when you go for the SI snowish situations, you know it's mind see is based all wrong as well, when it's all behind you and you had a lot of funny you made a load of money. It's much better if we can change course while we're in it, I think. HMM. Yeah, sir, if you have, if you got any anything you'd like to say or like, I need any advice before we finish? Like the quotes? Yeah, I mean I post loads of those on my linkedin feed. Anyone is very, very welcome to connect with me there, and I find applicate that on twitter and Instagram as well, so find me in any of those places. Basically, you know, education is for everybody. I've got loads of free resources to show you how you can ace it, whatever stage you're at, fit in around your life, not have it, you know, Change Your Life, change you from being what you want to be. And you know, provided hundreds of thousands of people don't contact me, I'm always happy to share my opinions on, you know, educational pathways people are thinking of into the future. And thanks for having the U spose out of most importantly, yeah, no, no, thank you for being on the podcasts and you know, I really, really humble and grateful for your time and, yeah, getting in touch and I'm happy to be a stay in touching and do another one of these recent understanding questions or something. Maybe we are both fire ourselves at those and compared and contrast what we come up with. I've been eight yeah, yeah, of course I'm looking at I mean, I'm starting off his anchor up at the minute, but I'm probably gonna go into zoo or you know things as well. So we not a problem. Look Brilliant. I thanks having even no, no, thunk you funky meals and I'll be in touching our great day. said it was really good, like good. Appreciate it, so get it up there. Yeah, to you, Chs most for you too. I've great, very thank you, but.

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